How She Beat Burnout | Raised By Her (Podcast Business News Network)

You’ll learn: the difference between boredom vs. burnout, boundary-setting that actually sticks, creative leadership tactics (retreats, team ideation, fresh projects), why rest is non-negotiable, and how to read your body’s early warning signs.

👉 Question for you: What’s one boundary you’ll set this month to protect your energy? Tell us in the comments.

Time Stamps:

00:00 Intro
01:01 Why burnout happens (and “quiet quitting”)
01:14 Meet the mother–daughter hosts
01:51 Ro Nita’s early career & first experiences of burnout
03:34 Producing TV, “community ascertainment,” and public-service programming
04:48 From TV to hosting a radio call-in show
05:46 Building a radio station (10-year journey) — one of five Black women owners
07:01 Navigating burnout across roles; keeping work fresh
09:16 Team creativity, retreats, and motivation
11:22 Donnica’s wake-up call on Capitol Hill (doctor-ordered rest)
12:36 The stress myth & boundary-setting that works
13:40 Boredom vs. burnout — how they connect
14:18 A lesson from her father at GM: purpose in the product
15:48 Career redesign: founding The Averity Group (remote-first)
18:48 Health, sleep, balance — crafting a life that fits
20:38 Remedies: music, vacations, new projects; listening to your body
23:58 Why we started Raised By Her
25:39 Where to listen & follow

Speaking, partnerships, or press: raisedbyherpodcast@gmail.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:05

Broadcasting from the business capital of the world. This is the Podcast Business News Network. And welcome back, everybody. Going to talk about something that I do believe most, if not all of us, have at one point in our lives gone through. I don't want to use the word suffered. That sounds painful. We've we've dealt with this before, and that is burnout at work. And I mean, this is this term has been around for a while. And there's other terms that came along after it, but quiet quitting, where so many of us are at work and we're just kind of phoning it in. We've already mentally checked out, but we're just showing up, doing our thing, collecting the paycheck, and just getting the blank out of there as fast as we can because we just burn. We've had it. How do you reinvigorate yourself at work and get past that burnout? We're going to dig into that today. People from well, the same background, but a different one in some regards. They're doing different things. However, they are connected as mother and daughter. Donica Haw Saunders and Ronita Haw Saunders joins us once again on the program. Welcome, ladies.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18

Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20

So I'm going to go. It's great to see you both. And by the way, before we even dig into this, you have a podcast together called Raised by Her, uh, which I think is fantastic. How you're very transparent about your relationship growing up and all of that. So let's let's go to that transparency right now. Have you, and I'm going to start with mom Ronita, have you experienced burnout at work in your career?

SPEAKER_01: 1:49

Oh, absolutely. Um, several times, as a matter of fact. Um and when I think about it, we didn't define it way back then. Um I began my working career in the 1970s, um, Steve. So I don't know if we had a definition for burnout. So I'm not sure I had an understanding of exactly what it was at the time. Um, I think I was probably really feeling like boredom was what was setting in, uh, lack of motivation. Um, but I really believe that uh I at that particular time, not understanding what I was going through, began to just look for something else to do. Um, a highly creative industry being in broadcasting. So when I really felt the burnout, if you will, I would take up um some ideas and look at some new projects, go talk to my bosses about uh how about if we try this? Or I was thinking about that. Now, generally, when you want to add more work, there's a positive attitude that uh the supervisors would have uh towards the idea of increasing the workload if you're willing to willing to do it. So that's the way I began um when I was just breaking out into the profession of broadcasting.

SPEAKER_00: 3:23

Can I ask you what what aspect of broadcasting uh did you endeavor in?

SPEAKER_01: 3:29

Yes. Uh so you can ask me that. Um initially, I I was in television. Um, I did a lot of uh producing shows, a lot of um community affairs kind of work. Um my first boss was a former news director. And so uh working at a television station, and um he was a really good teacher because he taught me the ins and outs of uh the business from the news perspective, uh, research being very important, uh, really taking a look at uh the background and why people did certain kinds of things. Um we also had something way back then, you may or may not be familiar with it, called community ascertainment. Do you have any idea of what that was? It was a requirement of broadcast stations at that particular time to go out in the community and to ascertain what the needs of the community actually were. And so we would have to do these interviews throughout the uh community with community leaders and then plan some programming, local programming, around being able to address those particular needs. And so I was in charge of doing ascertainment. Um, I was then hired a little bit later to be a producer at uh our public television station. During that time, um I was uh actually chosen as a host of a call-in talk show, radio call-in talk show. So on Sunday nights for three hours, I did that. Um during that time, I was sort of bitten by the broadcast bug. And uh I was able to research um and build my own station um in my hometown after a number of years. And so I was then a owner, general manager, creator of products. So I've had quite a long history of being in the broadcast field.

SPEAKER_00: 5:24

Wow, good for you.

SPEAKER_02: 5:25

I can just jump in real quick. I'm sorry to take over here, but um you were also one of three African American women in the country, period, to own not one, but multiple radio stations.

SPEAKER_00: 5:40

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02: 5:40

I just didn't want you to sell yourself short.

SPEAKER_01: 5:43

Well, thank you. Um thank you, Donica. Uh yes, it was actually five at the time. Um, yes, one one of five African American women um in the United States that built a radio station uh from the ground up. And I mean, I went through the whole process applying to the FCC, finding the frequency in my hometown, and uh just going through step by step by step. It took 10 years.

SPEAKER_00: 6:09

Wow. Um, thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 6:12

Thank you, Donica.

SPEAKER_00: 6:13

That amazing side note, I can fully relate to everything you said, especially um community ascertainment. Uh my first full-time job in radio was news and public service director. And I was 21 at the time, I had no idea what I was doing, but very uh challenging situation because you're talking about a government license for a broadcast facility. So you really gotta, you know, now they've relaxed a lot of that uh in terms of the community connection. Um, but yeah, I can I can see that. How did you brief? I mean, you had so many different aspects of your career, uh you know, from public service in the community within broadcast to talk show on air to ownership. Did was there burnout along the way there? Or did you did you change that when there was by going to the next step and next level to keep yourself motivated?

SPEAKER_01: 7:18

Um, I I think it really had to do with what my responsibilities were at a given time. So I began by talking about coming up with creative ways to be able to do some new projects and to look at some things that were a little bit different that I might have been interested in and then sell it to my bosses. Um, I also, as a producer of local shows, um, could do just about anything in terms of coming up with um ideas. But when you were executive producer and producer of a local show, you had to go through all the aspects of learning about the um production, especially in television on air and um making sure that you were doing something that was worthwhile, something that had quality. Um, one of my shows was picked up by PBS when I went to work at the public television station, when I was working at the public television station. So that was pretty cool. But this is a time in America when um African Americans were not really engaged and involved in broadcasting uh across the board. And so it was pretty unique for us as African-American women to even have a voice, have a presence, or work our ways into management. So I always say that I came into it at a time that gave me an opportunity to do many things. But by the time I decided to uh to build my own radio station and to be able to move forward in that direction, the industry had changed quite a bit. I was now focused on radio and not television. Um, and so I handled burnout differently as the president and general manager of uh of our my company.

SPEAKER_00: 9:06

I'm I'm detecting that you navigated through burnout by keeping it fresh. Would you say that that's accurate?

SPEAKER_01: 9:14

Keeping it fresh, yes, I I think that's accurate. I also think that um that creative side that um that we as broadcasters have that need to be able to not only stay busy but but keep busy. So coming up with ideas to motivate the people you're working with, I think is is good. You know, broadcasting is a team, it is a team approach. And so everything that we would do, there would be other people involved. So I can tell you, sometimes it would be um, let's do a retreat, let's get together as the production team and spend some time together um creating and planning. Let's see what it is that other people are interested in, and then we together would decide um to take an idea to the powers that be. I I loved the idea of coming up with something new and exciting, and the public responded to it. It was it was a really cool opportunity to be able to do that. I also I truly believe that the things that you're passionate about. Um my very first um job in terms of helping, and I wasn't a producer then, I was one of the the assistant to the assistant to the assistant, and it was a cooking show on television. And so it was uh first thing, and it was live TV, way back when we were doing live TV. First thing on a Saturday morning. So up early, going to the station and working on a cool cooking show. Now, today, when I think about how popular cooking is, networks and all these different things, I didn't create that show, but I was very involved in it. But it was a cool idea way back then. So, um, and a great way to learn. So, yeah, it's extremely important for individuals, I think, to come up with creative ideas and be able to motivate the team as well. So, not just focused on my burnout, but also focused on the fact that maybe my team needed to have some help and assistance as well.

SPEAKER_00: 11:20

Donica, how about you? Burnout at work.

SPEAKER_02: 11:24

Oh, absolutely. Um, and actually, as you all were having your discussion, I was thinking about when was the first time that I think I truly experienced burnout? And it was when I still worked on Capitol Hill and I ended up at the doctor's office. And the doctor was like, You are just literally exhausted. Um, you this is a physical manifestation of your stress. You have got to take some time off. And I was like, Take some time off. Who takes time off? I can't give me a pill and let's keep it moving. And she was like, No, that's that's not how um this works. And that was my introduction into really kind of incorporating um what I need in addition to the work that needs to be done into my approach um at work. And so I had to implement things like taking the time um when before I get sick, when I start to feel um any type of physical manifestation um due to stress. I had to start setting better boundaries, um, not only uh with my bosses, but also with my team. So to answer your question, absolutely, and it really changed how I started navigating my workspaces.

SPEAKER_00: 12:39

You said a word I think is extremely impactful for all of us. Stress. Stress has to lead to the burnout. And you said you were dealing with that.

SPEAKER_02: 12:51

Yes, stress, um, you know, it's a it's interesting because life is stressful and it's across the board. It's not about, from my perspective, eliminating stress. I don't know that that's possible, but you do need to be able to find ways to manage it. And so I think that's where the tools and the practicalities come in, not to have this expectation of a stress-free life. Although if anybody currently lives a stress-free life, I'd love to, you know, hear from them. But, you know, how can I make sure that um I'm navigating my life in a way um where I can be healthy and happy and as stress-free as possible.

SPEAKER_00: 13:30

Is there a difference between boredom and burnout? Or are they somewhat connected? Ronita, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01: 13:40

I think they are connected. Um, I indicated earlier that I didn't know that I was really burned out. I just thought I was really bored. And uh, but they are they are connected, I think, in in uh in two ways. I think one, when there is a need for you to generate some excitement within your work environment again, uh, a reason to want to get up and go to work and not to feel that you're doing the same day, the same thing over and over and over again. And I remember saying, uh asking my father at some particular time, who worked in a factory, uh, Daddy, how do you just every day get up at the same time and go and do the same job and then keep wanting to do it and keep wanting to do it? And he said, uh, well, two things. One, I have a family to take care of, so I had to be motivated by the fact of having a job. And two, I didn't think about the fact that I was really doing something over and over and over again. You're the one that just defined that. What I was thinking about is the product that we were creating and the important role that I had to play in making sure that that product was created the right way, uh, was put together the right way. He worked for General Motors. And I thought, I guess that there's a perspective there in terms of being able to make sure that you're not just bored. So he wasn't bored, so he wasn't burnt out. It wasn't something that caused him, I believe, uh, the excitement that the world of broadcasting allows us to really have. And from the very beginning, ours is a creative entertainment business because the people who watch us or listen to us depend upon us to have something that they want to watch or something that is is creative. So that whole burnout scenario, I think we have to take some individual responsibility for making sure that that is not a part of our world on a regular basis.

SPEAKER_00: 15:44

Well, interesting parallel when you look at at your dad, where he was focused on the product and what it's going to do to enhance somebody's life. And you on the broadcast side of things, pretty much the same. You know, the the only difference is maybe you get more instant feedback than he did, you know, working in the factory uh situation, where you might hear from, you know, viewers, listeners that it's made an impact, you know, out in the community and all that. So you've got you got feedback, so you knew that it was making, you know, a difference. But it's it's funny how you look at it, you know, through his lens. I'm getting up every day and I'm I'm I'm providing this for somebody and I'm helping them. Um, so that that enriched him, you know, that filled his heart up. Um we look at it as we hey, getting up every day at you know, five o'clock in the morning, that's gotta be rough. That's exactly it that way. Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 16:35

Yes, that that's exactly right. And um it it's a different kind of way to look at the world, but he was motivated by the things that he said. So taking care of his family.

SPEAKER_00: 16:48

Donica, you you revealed to us last time we got together that you you moved, you made a change from, I guess, the the Washington, D.C. area back um call it home, closer to relatives, whatever, in Ohio. That was a change. What what prompted that?

SPEAKER_02: 17:08

I guess um perhaps a form of burnout. So um I was working in a multinational corporation as I had been for the last several years, but I wanted something different. And I didn't know what exactly that was going to look like. So I leaned up to my network. You know, did I want to go to another multinational company? Not really, but I also didn't necessarily want to go smaller. I didn't want to go national or state. Um, I didn't want to totally pivot and go into the nonprofit space. You know, I was just like, what um, you know, what should I do with my career next? And somebody pitched me the idea of starting my own firm. And I was like, no, that's crazy. That's wild. Um, you know, why would you even say that to me? Um, but they said it to me because I had the network, I had the capability, I had the skill, all the all the things uh were really there right for the taking. I just had to be able to believe in myself enough to go for it. And so um I started that firm, the Averity Group, and um have been running it for a couple of years. And that is what gave me the flexibility to be able to make the choice uh to come back to Ohio from Washington, DC. We are a remote first um organization. So um me and the team work remotely, and uh we are a public, a national public affairs firm that specializes in highly regulated industries. So the work is niche, the work is national, the work is global in scope, but we can do it from all over the world, which is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00: 18:43

So what I'm thinking here too, we've we're we're talking about, you know, the challenge, now the solution, the remedy. But I'm hearing the remedy in what you just said, Donica, in that you may have been not getting enough sleep. I'm I'm hypothetical, but maybe this is true. You know, working where you were in in the DC area, right? Lots going on. Maybe not sleeping, maybe not having the lifestyle that you wanted, uh, maybe not eating the way you want, maybe not exercising because of that. But then you changed it to where now it's on your terms remotely. I gotta believe that burnout also has to come from all those things where you're unbalanced in your personal life in terms of sleep, nutrition, exercise. What do you think?

SPEAKER_02: 19:30

I totally agree with you. Um, I think a part of my overall decision making was like, what was um not feeling right in my life? And then what do I need to do to change it? Because if it's not right now, I can't anticipate anything is going to change if I don't change um and do something differently. And so I think that you are spot on um in terms of me developing the ability to be more in tune with what it is I truly want my life to look like.

SPEAKER_00: 19:58

Well, change is the word. We fear change. I give you courage for making that change. Um yeah, I I look back in my life and I was like, I probably should have made some changes here and there. Like five years ago, I made a change from getting up early in the morning and doing morning radio, which I've been doing since basically I was a kid. And I'm I'm glad I did it because it, you know, impacted, started impacting my health, and then you know, maybe burnout as well. Um, but it it was, you know, a little bit of fear involved because that's all I knew. Getting up early in the morning. Uh, Ronita, remedies for for burnout. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01: 20:36

I think you have to not only take control of uh your own life at a certain point, as as Donica did, but I also think that you need to have ways to be able to move back, move away from what it is you're doing. So perhaps uh for me, I love to listen to jazz music. So um so I would times from time to time would go to a jazz concert or make sure I was uh listening to a CD. And and um I also believe that it's very important to take vacations when they're scheduled. And as a broadcaster, I will tell you that it's not something that we would do. Other things would take priority, but I learned that I hate you for saying that. I do because I didn't.

SPEAKER_00: 21:21

I I just what you said, I would feel guilty about, you know, I got four weeks, so I was like sometimes five when I was there a long time. I felt guilty about taking that time off, but then also you want to show your worth. Well, you know, I'll leave a I'll leave like a week or two on the table because then they have to get somebody to fill in, like, duh, I earned that time.

SPEAKER_01: 21:41

Well, I I I understand that because I felt the same way, and that re that sense of responsibility. Again, broadcasting is 24-7. I mean, I I remember when we went on the radio when when we finally built the station and started, one of the things I said to my staff was, it starts now and it doesn't end. So we have to cover the airwaves. And so I I understand that that whole idea of uh not wanting to necessarily take time for self, but it is important to take time uh for self. I I also believe that coming up with uh some new projects and new ideas, one of the things that I believe was so very important um to my staff and for what we did was I gave them opportunities to create things that they wanted to see or they thought we should be doing. Sometimes we had contests, um, but new events, new promotions, new ideas. And they loved it. That helped then for them not to be bored and kept some excitement going, especially when I had the competitions. Um, Steve, I think that um that was good. Good for us, good for our company, good for our community um as well. I believe that you also need to be able to read your body, read the circumstance, and find out what you need so that when burnout is on its way, we decide that we are going to maybe try to head it off in some way, shape, or form. Um, I'm not sure we always, well, I know I didn't always do that, but now I can I can feel it. I know what it is, I know how uh I began to act and react to to Donica's point about just knowing that you need to change and then having the wherewithal to be able to make that change and do something different. I mean, look at our world. I love reading. Um, so sometimes I would just explore um different opportunities um through books. And um so it's different for each of us, but it's necessary to be able to move and and keep exploring life and doing some things that are different.

SPEAKER_00: 23:54

Tell us about the podcast that the both of you do.

SPEAKER_02: 23:59

Raised by her. So we started the podcast because we have these types of conversations around burnout, around healing, around self-care, around um all types of conversations that impact women and our relationships with other women as well as men. And we really wanted to be able to share some of the key learnings that come out of those conversations, not just with the immediate folks around us, but with a broader, with a broader network. And so um we we started talking um on a podcast. And it turns out this is a conversation that folks want to have and probably more importantly need to have around intergenerational relationships and their um perspectives on their relationships with their mothers or their daughters. And so um, it's really been a joy um thus far. And we're and we're just getting started. And so um we are just really excited. Thank you for having us. Um, but raised by her is the name of the podcast.

SPEAKER_00: 25:01

Fantastic. I I love the concept, and I'm sure like you both have realized even in the beginning stages of doing that podcast, things within yourself and also things within your relationship as mother-daughter, right? I'm sure things have come up even in discussion. Like, wait a minute, I don't remember that mom, like, or vice versa. Um, very cool. Raised by her. Check it out. Thank you both for being here today. You know, I I I appreciate your authenticity in what you bring, you know, not only to this podcast, but just in general. Um, is there a way to find you guys if anybody wants to connect with you?

SPEAKER_02: 25:39

Absolutely. We are on all uh podcast platforms. So you can listen to us on Spotify, Apple, you can watch us on YouTube, and please follow us on social media. If you can't watch the whole episode, you can see all the clips being loaded to TikTok and Instagram and all the things.

SPEAKER_00: 25:55

Beautiful. Donica and Ronita, thank you so much for being here today once again and uh looking forward next time we get together.

SPEAKER_02: 26:01

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 26:02

Appreciate it. We'll be right back. Broadcasting from the business capital of the world. This is the Podcast Business News Network.