What Emma Grede Teaches About Building a Billion-Dollar Mindset (Mini Episode)

What if working harder isn’t the answer—and visibility is?

In this episode of Raised by Her, Donnica and her mother break down the real implications of Emma Grede’s Start with Yourself and what it actually means for career growth—especially for Black women navigating corporate spaces.

They unpack the realities behind “lean-in” culture, proximity bias, and why being excellent at your job isn’t always enough to move forward. From choosing the right boss to staying visible in remote environments, this conversation challenges the traditional “work twice as hard” narrative and replaces it with a more strategic approach to advancement.

Drawing comparisons to voices like Les Brown and Warren Buffett, the episode bridges generational wisdom with modern workplace dynamics—touching on everything from leadership visibility to the personal trade-offs tied to ambition, relationships, and motherhood.

If you’re thinking about your next move, this is a conversation about positioning, power, and playing the long game.

Timestamps:

00:00 – Why Start with Yourself is sparking conversation
02:19 – Does “lean in” actually work for Black women?
03:53 – Les Brown vs. Emma Grede: mindset vs. strategy
06:16 – Building something from the ground up: a 10-year journey
08:00 – Is remote work hurting your career?
10:56 – How to stay visible to leadership
12:09 – Why choosing your boss matters
14:05 – Moving beyond “head down” work
18:14 – The parenting sacrifice debate
22:18 – Is marriage a business decision?
25:57 – Scaling brands like SKIMS & Good American

🎤 New episodes every week. Honest conversations between mother and daughter on family, womanhood, and navigating life across generations.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Thank you so much for joining us on the Raise by Her podcast. It really helps us out. If you download, subscribe, like, and love. And also please leave us a review. I flagged a book for you called.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Let me pull it up here. It's Start with Yourself. Yes. A New Vision for Work and Life. And thank you for flagging that. And actually recommending that I take a look at this book because I was actually blown away. I had it put on my um audiobooks, and I've been listening to it for the last few days, and I love it. You do? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Yeah. It's by Emma Greed, and I listened to her podcast, and I have known her as a Kardashian Whisperer, if you will. She is No, what does that mean? She is the woman behind the powerhouse brand Skims, the company Skims, um, and the company Good America. Skims, which is Kim Kardashian, one of Kim Kardashian's businesses, Good American, which is one of Chloe Kardashian's uh businesses, both multi-billion dollar businesses. And she was one of the business powerhouses behind making those companies as successful as they are.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

She's from London and she talks a lot about her challenging upbringing. She was raised by a single mother, and she indicated that watching her mother's work ethic was really what gave her a good sense that you can get through anything. She was 12 years old when she got her first job. And she talked a lot about understanding the fact of working hard and making sure you're really good at what you do is very important in in terms of branding yourself as well.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

So it does not surprise me that uh you are drawn to her and her words, just like I have been drawn to her and her words. Not everybody has been drawn to her and her words during the release. She's a black woman. Yes, yes, she is a black woman. Yes. Um, one uh and so I'll just I'll I'll mention to you a couple of things that rubbed some people the wrong way, just to get your thoughts on that. Um, one of the things that has rubbed people the wrong way. Speaking of working hard, um, some pushback that she's received is people saying that black women, particularly in corporate, because she's uh I would say mostly a corporate person and and and speaks in corporate P speaks in cor speaks in corporate speak. Um but one of the things that's people are saying is that working hard is not enough. Like black women have worked their asses off for a really long time to try to climb the corporate ladder or get to certain spaces, and that has never been enough for a black woman. Um some some black women, yes, but just to kind of incorporate that lean-in strategy that was, you know, hyped up a few years ago, like that was never a strategy for black women. That was a strategy for white women. And um you have to people are feeling like she is not acknowledging the systemic racism that exists within these corporations, that is one of the things, one of the big things that sometimes holds us back as black women.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

And listening to that perspective, I understand why she would get pushback on that. But I also understand the message that she was trying to give. And it reminded me of the fact that Les Brown, who is a motivational speaker, who you know is a friend of mine, and someone that I listened to and went to see his speeches and his presentations many times when I was um in college and then got out of college. And one of the things that Les Brown would always say is that you can get beyond those circumstances. And he would he Les would talk about the fact of his mother and uh how he was raised and the challenges that he had as a as a child. But he said, What I decided to do was to give myself the opportunity not to think about what I was, but what I could become. And he would say, Les Brown would say, so that's what you have to do. I think that's what um Emma was saying as well. She is saying, get beyond the circumstance, because everybody goes through a something and decide exactly what it is that you want to do. And and if you've heard Les Brown speak and you've heard the story about him showing up one time, two times, three times. Oh, yeah. And at the time when he finally got a chance, this is when he was trying to get his radio getting, and he was there. Yeah. But you don't know that the time is coming if you're not prepared, if you're not there. That's the kind of advice that I think um Emma was giving as well.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

I agree. I mean, I see both sides, but I would also I definitely lean towards because what's the alternative? You must continue to work hard and do what it is that you know to do, and uh eventually success will come, even if it doesn't look in the form of what you might think it is. I give her a lot of credit um for being able to look at life not as it is, but as she wants it to be, and then focusing on creating that. I mean, we we are women who are very big on manifesting. And so I feel like that's a piece of kind of what I'm saying here. And I think that she does very well, but also is really honest about the amount of work that it takes to get there.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

And to that point of the amount of work that it takes, I'll go back to what Les would say. If you are wanting to accomplish a certain goal and you think that you're going to be able to get to that goal, it doesn't matter how much work it takes. It just takes as much as it takes. And you know, you know my story. When I tell you it took 10 years for me to be able to build the radio station that I built from the ground up, during that 10-year period of time, I was preparing myself, I think, to be a better owner, a better general manager, and to build the business. But it shouldn't have taken 10 years. It, I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous, and yet it should have taken 10 years because it did. You know, I mean it happened, it was supposed to happen that thing. I I I think so. But uh her her point is, and and she often quotes Warren Buffett um in in the book as well, and she talks about uh discipline, and she said what Warren Buffett talked about in terms of money and financing and understanding the markets, uh, making sure that you have the amount of discipline that is necessary to get to the goal. What most people do is they blame this whatever. They blame the system, they blame their boss, they blame, they blame mom and dad, they blame the the fact that that accountability piece we were just talking about. That's exactly right. And so I honor and respect the fact that women are being honest about what it takes. And we know that it's harder for uh for black folks. I mean, it's it's it always is. The lesson that um we had to learn when we were very young is you're gonna have to work harder and you're going to have to do more in order just to get in the door.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

Oh, yeah, it's what it's it's uh be twice as good to get half as much, I believe is the the phrase. Um okay, so we we agree with her on that. I will so there was another uh point of pushback that she received that um I actually leaned into some of this pushback too, although I understand where she's coming from as well. Again, I'm like I see both sides. Uh she talked about how working from home uh kills your career and how visibility and proximity is essential in building out um a successful career. And um I I I know why she says that. I think there is certainly a lane for that. I also feel like it's super old school. Um, and that we are now in a truly remote world. And depending on what your goals are, like if if you are trying to to climb a corporate ladder in a certain type of way, okay, perhaps. And you want to lean into the traditional systems. But if you are choosing to do um something different, then I just think that there's there's a variety of ways to to do it.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

I think there are a variety of ways to do it, and you are absolutely correct when you talk about the old school way. Her point again was the fact that if you're going to be the person that shows up, if you're going to be the go-to person, if you're going to do more than what other people do, then you have to be there where they can see you. And the the challenge today in terms of working at home is that everyone is so spread out and everyone is not there working as one-on-one or individuals. Now, you and I, we we referred to this before because it's it's it's hard to be able to form that relationship where you can trust someone and you know that they can get the work done. I'm thinking about uh a time when um you had a boss with one of your other one of the corporate companies that you work for, and whenever there was some new project that came up, he said, mommy, he's giving me another assignment. Mommy, I don't know why he's gonna be asking. Yeah, he has to being good at your job. He just got more time. You remember that? I you know, which time, which boss, but well, well, you know, and then you had the opportunity to um go to one of the uh national political um uh conventions and uh and you were the host of one of the company um presidents from uh overseas. And what you talked about was the fantastic time that you had in terms of being able to see our political process in in work and going to that convention and and being able to then being the host of the the company president. And I said to you, see, this is what happens when your boss knew who the go-to person was to be able to host and to be there. If you had not been in the office and doing the things that you were doing, he may not have been able to see your skill sets to stretch yourself in a way that you had not been seen before.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

So, what's interesting about that um is that I wasn't in the office, really. Um, so this is a global company. Okay, and uh I traveled a lot, he traveled a lot, our team traveled a lot, we were spread out all over the world. I was just very good at what I did, and I was able to incorporate tactics to ensure my visibility um with him, with his boss, with other teams cross-functionally beyond just having to be all in the same office. It was a skill I had to develop, which I had to develop because I started off working in DC. And usually DC government affairs, lobbying is not the headquarters of a corporation. They're, you know, they're headquartered elsewhere. And so I had to learn very quickly how to build out those different relationships with headquarters, with my bosses, with their bosses, um, not just like in a small DC office, but also in other offices.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Then let's talk about what it is specifically that you did, because what I think that Emma was trying to say is do the kind of things that you're talking about that you did. Make sure that you are the go-to person. Make sure that you are knowledgeable, not just in terms of your team and the individuals that you work with, make sure that you're knowledgeable for other people as well, so that you become a resource base, which you were, that's what you're saying. And then you were given this responsibility.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

I will, I will, I will talk about a few of the things that I did, but also I want to say, because this is critically important as well. I chose jobs based on the boss that I would have. I chose leaders. Okay. And so, yes, I was very good at what I did. Uh, but also I was working for people who I knew that we would work well together. I knew that they believed in me. I knew that they wanted more for me than just where I was. So they were gonna give me opportunities like, oh, hey, the global CEO's coming in town, you go with him versus I go with him, or you know, or something like that. Uh and as soon as those bosses would leave, actually, if you look at my track record, as soon as the boss that's true. That's right. Oh no, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

They leave, you leave. They leave, you in fact, I remember thinking, oh no, he's leaving. Yes, and then I thought, okay, she would she's getting ready to uh you know, we used to, when I was raised, we were thinking that staying in a job for 15, 20, 30 years, and but uh, you know, 15, 30 minutes. Well, maybe a little longer, maybe a little longer.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Well, I one can make the argument that companies were um also more um loyal to their employees in the past than they are now. You know, I think there's some reciprocity there that doesn't exist anymore. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

That's one of the reasons that people should Emma Greed really, what she was talking about was mentoring as well. So so maybe when you were choosing your bosses, you were looking for the fact of being of the bosses being good mentors too to help you grow and and stretch. Because what she says in um in her book is that you want to make sure that you are around people who can mentor you. And it may not be a boss, it may be, it may be a colleague, it could be a friend. It should be more than one person. That's exactly right. Yeah. Yes. So, but back to the question of what did you do strategically that really helped. I think that might be helpful.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Okay, so one of the things I feel like we are taught as women is that just putting your head down and doing the work is enough. Um, I ensured that once there was a success, um, that I was making it as visible as possible. I leveraged internal channels, I leveraged external channels. I mean, I made sure that the work was seen was one thing. And uh it's an uncomfortable thing to do, uh, or at least it was, not anymore, because now it's a part of the general practice. But I made sure that I was visible in different ways. I also did show up when there were in-person opportunities. I did not want to go into an office every day. That's not the life I wanted for myself. But when there were particular offsites and there were particular travel opportunities or event opportunities, I would make sure that I was there. So I'm not there all the time, but I would incorporate that proximity based on who I knew was going to be in the room to make sure that it would benefit my career overall. Also building out relationships beyond just the work that you do. So, yes, I had my team and my job and everything. I also network, yes, with other verticals to learn the business more broadly, but then also built out an expansive external network as well that um others in the company didn't necessarily have. So I became one of the go-to people to be able to, oh, reach into these media companies or reach into this civil society engagement or these NGOs. They're like, oh, Donica has those relationships, and we know she has those relationships because she's either brought this or she's talked about it, or you know, I wasn't trying to work behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

That's such a key point because I I think being able to do the extra work, go the extra mile, then it there are long-term benefits that you don't know exactly how they're going to benefit you, your company, the project, but you know eventually that they will because that's the way that life works. That is the cycle of how to be able to stretch yourself and to make sure that the work is done and that it's going to benefit hopefully all of the above.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Equally as important though, uh, I left when I no longer had a uh a boss that was in my corner. I think that is also critical. Because there's no what's the point in trying to outwork somebody that's going to just try to squash you?

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Well, yeah. Yeah. There's not a point. That that's a part of the reality. Um of the people that uh I promoted over the years are individuals that would also try new and different things. They were not afraid to be able to stretch themselves. And yes, they would raise their hand and volunteer to take on a project or do something when I talked about the fact that we wanted to do something new and different. They were not afraid to be able to say, I can do this, uh, and I'm not afraid to to move it forward and to try it. And then they did it well. They did it very they didn't very well because the next time I was looking for someone to promote, yeah, then I would uh I would choose from many times from inside. New job opened up, then as opposed to uh going outside. Now sometimes I went outside, but it was good. And it allowed me to be able to feel that uh we were stretching ourselves and being able to stretch the brand of the company. Yep. And I think that makes a difference. And many times, oh, the other part of it is you have to read, you have to prepare yourself, you have to learn. So we did a lot of training. A lot of training because that's important.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Yeah. So that way the people that were with you could continue to be with you as the company grew. Because as we know so often, sometimes the folks who get you to one place, if they don't grow and they don't train, then you know they can't be the people that take you to that next stage and phase. Okay, so I think we we can uh we understand what Emma is saying, but I, you know, I do think that they're that you can be successful uh working from home or working remotely as well. I'll mention one other piece of pushback that she's received, and then we can move on to our next topic. Um she has four children. Um and oh, actually, there's two more pieces of pushback that I'll mention.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

All right. Okay, I can I can relate to that. Okay, okay, all right.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Yeah, okay. So she has four children, and she stated that she spends uh it's only necessary to spend three hours a day um with them uh for you know their success. No more is needed. And obviously, as she's gone on uh, you know, different press, press runs, she's people have asked her about it, and so she's expanded a little bit and she's like, look, I try to be there for the core moments and the core memories. I'm not trying to be there 24-7 because that's not the nature of the life that I've built. I can't because I am very honest about the fact that I work all the time, all the time. But I do know that it's important. Of course, I want to be there for my kids and I love them and I am there, but uh there's a real balance, and three hours is where I'm at right now.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

When I uh people had a meltdown. When I saw well, I I I totally don't agree with that. I don't think it's uh an amount of time. I think it's the time that is necessary for the given task at hand. And I think it's very important to be able to understand your children are different, their needs are different, different stages of life, they need more time, less time, depending upon their activities. Uh as she's talking about that time frame and her, it's not even a work-life balance, it's um making sure that the job is done and where the priorities are. She does say ask for help. And at the point that she, when she became successful, she could pay for extra help. But it it's not a clock that you put it, you know, oh, well, let me see. Uh let me look and see. This is three hours of time that I'm going to give. Yeah, and all of that. Uh, her her point that uh an extraordinary life takes extraordinary sacrifices. And she's saying that um there are times in her life when she was willing to sacrifice that. It reminded me of uh a time in my life, actually, when after right after I had you, I went to a meeting with American women in radio and television. I was on the national board, and we had a board meeting, and there was a presentation that I needed to make, and um you were four months old. And so I remember so I I was nursing you, and I decided um that I really needed to go to this meeting, and so I asked mommy, um my mother Rosa, that's represented here um by this rose. I asked her, I said, Mommy, will you go to DC with me? We have this uh board meeting, and uh she said, Oh sure, you know, and you could take care of Donica when I was in the meetings, and then the ladies would be able to uh see you and and and meet you. And U and I. Yes, and that's what they did. They did. Um but one of the questions that I ask the the ladies, I'm a new mother now. How do I make sure that I'm taking care of my child's needs? This is my first child. How do I take care of my child's needs and all the responsibilities that that I have as an executive in the company? And they said what you have to do is be a real be realistic about what you can accomplish. You're gonna get tired when you're tired. You need to rest, you need to ask for help, and you need to really work on that guilt feeling when you can't be with your child. But make sure your child's needs are met. And and that really helped me because I can I remember that advice today. I remember that that was your first plane ride. Oh, was it going going to uh Washington DC? And I asked mommy to go with me and and to help. And then I was able to continue to follow that advice. So I think you have to do that when you have children and. you have a high level of of responsibility. I mean it makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

So I, you know. Um the But three hours is not acceptable. Excuse me. I just want you to know that I I yeah I like a lot of her advice. That is that's that is that yes yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

So um and the the last piece of pushback that I remember um is folks are saying that she's uh not being totally honest about her privilege and the fact that her career really skyrocketed when she married her husband. And so she married a uh a successful powerful white man and that's kind of what took her career to the next level. Yes, all these other things but um they're like but also this as well and you know I'm success looks all different types of ways. We've talked about how marriage in previous episodes uh it it might behoove people to think of it as a business decision in addition to the love component as well.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

It is a business decision. Yeah you just don't think about it the time it's a business decision because you're you're tied to some women do the emotions. Well but that's women today. That's not the way we were raised. It's not the way it was um back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

It was for black women.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

For women in general because a lot of women um but specifically for black women especially if you were getting an education but you were really taught that love was most important. Love is important but you were not necessarily going to marry someone just because of status or just because what they can do for your bottom line.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

But wasn't there a t uh I feel like I'm asking question kind of already know the answer but there was a time where women went to college to meet their husbands. White women. That's what I'm saying. So there is a racial component to it.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Oh yes yes yeah and and the wealthier uh society actually promoted that too so you could go to the uh to the colleges and universities so we could build our own so that's but what um black women were really encouraged to do is to get your education so that you can take care of yourself take care of your family and and be able to to be successful. And so sometimes even now my friends and I talk about the fact that um we didn't quite have it right in in terms of what the priority was in terms of ourselves because Emma talks a lot about um well-being self-care self-love and but to your point she had the privilege of being able to do that. She talks also about her failures. There are times when she decided to uh expand her company and move from one uh city to another and she said depending upon the atmosphere that you are building your business you need to be able to know your networks you need to understand that building a business in New York City is different than building a business in uh Los Angeles. Sure. And her Los Angeles businesses were not as successful as she thought they would be and they weren't anything as successful as when she was in London.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

So I mean I just I appreciate that she's not gatekeeping um any of the information that she has taken it upon herself knowing that she has risen to a level that um not many people get the chance to should and truly telling her story the successes and the failures what's worked what hasn't worked um I just and I listen to her podcast mostly every week and so I just thank you to her shout out to her um even when there is some pushback I again I can like see both sides and I think it's a good discussion for women to have for where we are in 2026 as well. And so I'm just a fan.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

The book is Start with yourself a new vision for work and life and we're talking about Emma Greed. So on to bigger and better things. Yeah her money's long I'm sure it is she better get it I know it is today.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

No yeah so do you have some skims? Yeah it's good qual I always want to hear promoting Kardashian so I don't really want to be but yeah they are um of good quality good quality and she also indicated that there was a time when they needed to expand their line and she said now some people would say you know you're supposed to have something that you start as an entrepreneur that you have a passion for and you're supposed to know your product and you know don't stretch yourself too much at the wrong time.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

But at the right time if you've done your homework your research you study the numbers know what the market wants then you can expand your line that's great entrepreneurial advice.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Yeah those skims are good and those good American jeans are good. I struggle with finding jeans that I like the way they fit dropping for jeans is a is a it's a struggle.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Well the price point for jeans I think is is really challenging because you can really go to old navy and get some jeans for$20.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

But do they fit right?

SPEAKER_02 26:41

I I don't know Ed I can um I I don't know okay all right so that's funny to that point yeah she's got wisdom she's got sex she's got questions she's got let two voices collide waves in the same thing that's the key of wisdom under